Kishu x Shikoku

Last night a litter of 3 pups was born in my dining room, a cross between my hunting line Kishu, Baron, and my show line Shikoku, Hime. The pups were born on the 1st of July, 2013. There are 2 red sesame females, and one black sesame male.





Both parents are extremely relaxed at home, to the point of being boring. They laze around, only getting up to eat, or greet visitors. Baron is outgoing, loves puppies and people, does not bark in the house at all. Hime is reserved with strangers, but is very polite with and loves people she knows. She will bark when people come to the house until told it is okay to stop. She is a low energy Shikoku, an anomaly. Both of these dogs adore me and my friends, and we feel the same about them. Baron is a proven big game hunter, and I had been slowly starting Hime out in the mountains to see how she would do.

If these pups pick up even half of the excellent temperament of their parents, they will be a joy to own. Both parents are healthy, though Hime did have a bout of HGE that you can read about here. I was actually quite surprised that Hime conceived, given that she experienced her medical emergency in the days immediately following mating.

This mating was not an accident, but rather an experimental breeding. Hime was sent to me as a 3 year old (now just over 4 years ol.d), and is a beautifully balanced bitch with almost no flaws, but we have been unsuccessful at getting her to conceive. There have been extenuating circumstances the last two heats that she was bred which may have affected conception, but I was planning on attempting one more breeding with her this last heat, and then spaying her if it did not take. Due to my kennel being under construction, she was at a friend's kennel, and when I picked her up I discovered that she was already in heat. Since I had no idea of telling when her heat had started, I made the decision to attempt a breeding with the one male I have here with me, Baron.

The reasons for this were threefold. Her past matings had been timed 'perfectly' and had not taken, and I've heard some information regarding low sperm motility in Shikoku males. By allowing a natural course of breeding between the dogs, and by breeding her with my hunting line Kishu (from a litter of 11 pups, and a breed that does not seem to have the same fertility issues sometimes seen in the Shikoku) I had a chance to experiment with the idea that we might have better success rates at breeding Shikoku if they were left to mate naturally and more frequently (letting nature take its course as opposed to trying to guess the perfect day), and I could discover if Hime really was infertile (maybe it's low fertility in Shikoku males and females?). Baron has not been bred before, but I had him tested for motility, and the results came back as excellent. The last reason was monetary. Paying out stud fees numerous times for a female that does not produce pups is no fun, and the consensus among the kennels here was that Hime was infertile. As a bonus, I get to firsthand see what breeding a white dogs into the Shikoku produces, something that interests me as it has been taboo for a long time now in NIPPO after what happened to the Kishu.

This was definitely an imperfect experiment, but the best I could pull of at very short notice, as by the second day back with me, Hime began making overtures toward Baron. They had their first tie that day, on the 29th of June. The puppies were born on the dot, 63 days later, July 1st.




I will be posting about the pups as they mature, and will be looking for homes for them here in Japan, and overseas, as companions or working dogs. These pups are not for sale, they'll be placed in selected homes, and I will only ask that expenses are covered. I will ask for information regarding them and for pictures from time to time as this is an experimental breeding, and I don't imagine a cross like this happening again anytime soon.

Comments

  1. Cute puppy paws. :)

    I hope they all get great homes.

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    1. Thanks, Saya. They'll either get great homes, or stay with me :)

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  2. Awesome news! I have always wondered how the pups would turn out with that combination. I WISH I could have one LOL. I hope one finds its way to socal though. Good stuff!

    Gen

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    1. It's been rumored to be the shortcut taken by unscrupulous kennels to create better Yushoku Kishu. That's not a stretch by the looks of it. The pups all came out sesame.

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  3. Guessing the 'perfect' day to mate is problematic without progesterone testing. ie. Certain females of other breeds are fertile starting at day 14.

    I'm in favor of the dogs figuring it out.

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    1. I've never done any progesterone testing. I might try testing the next female that's coming into heat, just for fun.

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    2. I just spoke with Yano-san from Izumo Yano Sou about progesterone testing. Apparently he's tried it, and hasn't had good results. He says he now sticks to kenneling the male/female pair side by side and bringing them together everyday once she's a few days into heat. While conventional wisdom says 14 days, he has some females that ovulate at 10 days every time, and some @20.

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    3. Is that progesterone testing coupled with some sort of AI, or just progesterone testing with a natural breeding attempt?

      What has his experience been with split heats and other irregular cycles? Pretty common?

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    4. Progesterone with a natural breeding. AI's are not done here in the NK community, to the best of my knowledge.

      Split heats and irregular cycles are not uncommon, though it is recognized as abnormal.

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  4. What an interesting story, I'd love to see how the puppies develop both in appearance and temperament. Debating if I can have one lol

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    1. Right now they look like little Shikoku, but with a bit more white on feet and tails.

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  5. Congratulations, I would be interested to see how they mature too! And also interesting to hear your stories about Hime and the shikoku males vs with the Kishu male. I have definitely heard about poor sperm in some shikoku males, and can verify that, as I have experienced it myself with a male I own. I have also heard of some female infertility issues too. It's really too bad, but certainly something you have to consider with a rare breed.

    But very exciting to see the puppies grow up!

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  6. I highly give you thumbs up for this experiment! I only hope you could register these puppies and get new genes to shikokus to help with the problems. :) It will be interesting to see how these puppies will grow up! Good luck!

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    1. The Kishu is not an extremely large gene pool either. Regardless, I'm 99.9% sure that the studbook will never be opened to allow something like that.

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    2. And that is a damn shame if you ask me. They should open the registers and take these dogs to the breed and make the genetic situation better. We are trying to get permission to do cross with Akitas to some other breed because the genetic situation is so poor with the breed when we have all those genetic AI-diseases.

      I honestly wish all the best for this litter and I hope to hear more about them! :)

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  7. When I look the paw picture on your FB account I thought that was a Hime's puppy ^^. I really love the fact that you totally assume this experimental cross and tell us the reasons why.
    Can't wait to see more pictures of these 3 little cute guys.

    You give me more and more desire to have my own kai ken kennel one day :D.

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    1. I imagine there will be people out there who will not react positively to this breeding, I can't help that. It's not something I imagine I'll do again as it doesn't help me preserve either breed, but I figure I may as well put the information out there in the hopes that we can gain some knowledge out of it. The pups are doing well so far, and I will get some more pictures up soon.

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    2. At the very least, it proves Hime can carry pups and could justify spending the money to breed her one more time.

      Just curious though, stud dog owners in Japan don't offer a free attempt at a re-breeding if there are no pups or only one pup in a litter?

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    3. Depends on the kennel. Stud fees are fairly low at most kennels, and especially in a case like Hime's where 2 matings had failed with a proven stud (solid ties both times), it is inferred that there is a problem with the female, and not the male, so you often will end up paying stud fees again. Of course it also depends on your relationship with the kennel.
      In the case of one pup, that is a successful breeding, so you would definitely not get another free attempt.

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  8. I'm really interested in these pups! It'll be fun to see how they grow. Congratulations!

    I wish timing were better - which I've always thought was a silly thing to say when it comes to rare opportunities - because I'd love to provide a home for one of these pups, but my Shikoku needs a little TLC on his own right now. :/

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